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 Shih tzu types

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Flamenko



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PostSubject: Shih tzu types   Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:36 am

All of us know that there are two types of shih tzu: american and english (some people calls it scandinavian, european...)


American type




English type




Naturally, it can be in-between variant :]


Last edited by Flamenko on Thu May 21, 2009 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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tzuluv



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Wed May 20, 2009 8:32 pm

Hi Indre,

There are several reasons why this coatless depiction does not represent the American Shih Tzu well. The dog appears leggy (though squatty is not desired either) and lanky. The neck is too long. The chest does not extend below the elbow. The tail is too flat and should be much more up and over. The nose is too long and the head is extremely horrible. The head should be round with nice foreskull, not essentially flat as is depicted here.

If you compare this picture with those in the Illustrated Standard you posted you will find a vast difference. The diagrams in the Illustrated Standard reflect the requirements of the written standard very much so in my opinion.

I'd say this is a good learning tool as to what a shih tzu should not be though Surprised)!
Peace and best wishes!

Steve/USA
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Lemuro
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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Thu May 21, 2009 7:35 am

tzuluv>> the same I was writing in our Lithuanian shih-tzu forum about the same topic. I eally do not enjoyed thease photos how looks american and english type of shih-tzu...
I have seen some really good american shih-tzu who was winning very much in ameriva, for example my new dog "Magnum" and they are really not like in this drawing. They are really more closier to the shih-tzu standard even english type shih-tzu...

anyway in the american shih-tzu standard they drawing shih-tzu like this :




I think the good dog isn't in some type, the good dog is that one who is near the standard.. pf course it is my opinion.. but I think that the most diffirent from very good dogs from american and eauropean or scandinaviam shih-tzu is just a grooming...

Wink
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tanja



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Thu May 21, 2009 9:21 am

hi am from norway, but live in spain.
i have one from amerikan lines and one after very old blodlines in norway.
and they are realey diferent.
i meen my amerikan is a elegant and longer legs, the norwishen is very shortlegs.
but as you say it is many between types.
if you look at puppys in a typical norwegian kennel and look at a typical american puppy you easy se de diferent of them.
in norway the chest is almost in the floor.
but we all read the standar different and that is no wrong about that, thats life Very Happy
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Flamenko



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Thu May 21, 2009 10:32 am

Yeah, I agree, that that picture isn`t right, but I just wanted to say, that there are two VERY different types. Maybe even instigate a discussion about it. Smile
Maybe I should leave only the photos, because they perfectly shows the diffrence between the two types of the breed. And those drawn pictures should be taken out Smile
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tanja



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Fri May 22, 2009 5:14 am

i think that it mybe a sulucion to have two types, i meen split them.
like it is today its a lottery if the judgs like the american or the english type, and thats not right.
peopel travel far away to show and spend lot of mony on showing.
before they called it europen type, but in europe today its alot american so i think the englsih type is more proper name for the english and like some call it the scandinavien type.

i meen the american is a great shih tzu, but american. they have a great coat and they have elegant movement, its a realey show dog, but the old type of shih tzu is not like that.
like the cocker there are two types but seperat.
what do you folks think??
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Flamenko



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Fri May 22, 2009 2:47 pm

In my opinion, the best dog is dog "without a type" or "middle-type", I mean, dog, which goes first under a judge whatever is he/she from - USA, Sweden, UK or Russia...
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tzuluv



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Fri May 22, 2009 3:01 pm

There are two different types no doubt. To me, the ideal is portrayed in the illustrated standard.

Concerning the type referred to as the English - from the vast amount of pictures I have seen, they typically appear too short and then coupled with too long of back which often appears high in the rear. I much prefer some height as to not appear stationed on the ground, and also a level topline that is just slightly longer than the dog is tall. However, the English type is known for some strong and desirable traits which are heavy boning, nice big heads and correct tail sets/carriage. These are problem areas with the American Shih Tzu - especially tails - a great number are not good.

I don't see the difference in the two as a result of the standards (AKC and FCI) varying so much one from the other. As there are only a few minor variations in the two.

Having seperate judging doesn't seem plausible as there is but one standard.

I guess everyone much come to a mindset as to what is the ideal Shih Tzu for them based on the breed standard and strive to create that specimen by selective effort.

Steve/USA

Also I have seen (gone over) Xeralane's Magician a few times as he resides with a friend of mine not far away. He is a very nice boy. I think you said he was son of your Magnum.
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tanja



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Fri May 22, 2009 5:28 pm

hi again
yes it is like i said, the american is a realey show dog, i meen the siluet and the topline etc.
but if you look at ta maria kennel in finland they have the low type and good topline to.
yes i know that some english can have problem, i have seen that about the topline.
its like the english mastiff, or the neopilitan mastiffs, they have also this problem to get a good topline.
i thhink its a good ide to breed in some american to english and then english on the puppys after them.
even english breeders do that.

but what i ment to split them is to get to breeds, like the american cocker and the english cocker.
they also are very different in type and siluett.
but this is not up to us, this is the breeders homecontry, so i think it will maby never happen.
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Lemuro
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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Mon May 25, 2009 5:13 pm

anyway I still keep my opinion , because the standard is the standard and the shih-tzu who si closier the standard will be the best Smile
some really english type and american type shih-tzu in my opinion are not like writing in the standard about the shih-tzu and it depends from a judge which type they like, it is like a lotery.

P.S. yes , Xerelane's Magnician is Magnum son Wink
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tzuluv



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Tue May 26, 2009 1:33 pm

>>>the standard and the shih-tzu who si closier the standard will be the best <<<

We hope!

And I'm sure we have all seen the times that a "lottery" drawing would have been a better method for putting up, than the dogs the judges selected, but that's the way it goes at times, but not all the time.
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tzu



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:30 pm

Common peoble! Our beloved breed is changing! from the old english/chinese to american light, leggy type, and that im worried about!

If you only look at the breed history and it´s oriental origin you show clearly whitch type is the correct old type. We all know that dogs in America, not only the shih tzu, are more extreme and showy then in europe. Take for examples the english springer spaniel, they are a working dogs, how can they work in the fields with that look and all that coat they have in America??

The American Shih Tzu I think is too short, to leggy, I mean this breed should be like the standard say STRONG, big round head, LOW to the ground, longer than it is high, level topline not like on a Schnauzer or up in the back! Very flat tails! And even if the have ok tails, the handlers push them down!

They should not be like dolls!! I mean just Look!! I think these drawed photos above are just like the real pictures itself!

Read about the shih tzu past, look at pictures then you perhaps know what I mean Smile

some champions:

English type

Typical English/Scandinavian Shih Tzu multi Ch! (a male)


One of the most winning shih tzu in scandinavia from very old blodlines

English type, from Irland:


----
American Type




American Champion Fantasia Splendor Of D Night (a male)
(Not the best pic but shows his body well)





Last edited by tzu on Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:09 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Flamenko



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:36 pm


What did you mean posting this photo? Smile Is it your example of good or bad shih tzu?
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tzu



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:38 pm

Well This photo should presenting the topline talk Smile
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Flamenko



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PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:41 pm

tzu wrote:
Well This photo should presenting the topline talk Smile

I like her topline, judges liked too Smile
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