Worldwide Shih-Tzu forum

Worldwide Shih-Tzu forum, where all breeders, handlers, groomers and shih-tzu lovers can meet and talk about this breed
 
HomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Shih tzu types

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Flamenko



Posts : 114
Join date : 2009-04-11
Age : 28
Location : Vilnius, Lithuania

PostSubject: Shih tzu types   Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:36 am

All of us know that there are two types of shih tzu: american and english (some people calls it scandinavian, european...)


American type




English type




Naturally, it can be in-between variant :]


Last edited by Flamenko on Thu May 21, 2009 4:34 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.shih-tzu.tik.lt
tzuluv



Posts : 3
Join date : 2009-05-17

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Wed May 20, 2009 2:32 pm

Hi Indre,

There are several reasons why this coatless depiction does not represent the American Shih Tzu well. The dog appears leggy (though squatty is not desired either) and lanky. The neck is too long. The chest does not extend below the elbow. The tail is too flat and should be much more up and over. The nose is too long and the head is extremely horrible. The head should be round with nice foreskull, not essentially flat as is depicted here.

If you compare this picture with those in the Illustrated Standard you posted you will find a vast difference. The diagrams in the Illustrated Standard reflect the requirements of the written standard very much so in my opinion.

I'd say this is a good learning tool as to what a shih tzu should not be though Surprised)!
Peace and best wishes!

Steve/USA
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lemuro
Admin


Posts : 204
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 26
Location : Lithuania

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Thu May 21, 2009 1:35 am

tzuluv>> the same I was writing in our Lithuanian shih-tzu forum about the same topic. I eally do not enjoyed thease photos how looks american and english type of shih-tzu...
I have seen some really good american shih-tzu who was winning very much in ameriva, for example my new dog "Magnum" and they are really not like in this drawing. They are really more closier to the shih-tzu standard even english type shih-tzu...

anyway in the american shih-tzu standard they drawing shih-tzu like this :




I think the good dog isn't in some type, the good dog is that one who is near the standard.. pf course it is my opinion.. but I think that the most diffirent from very good dogs from american and eauropean or scandinaviam shih-tzu is just a grooming...

Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.myshihtzu.info
tanja



Posts : 17
Join date : 2009-05-21
Age : 48

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Thu May 21, 2009 3:21 am

hi am from norway, but live in spain.
i have one from amerikan lines and one after very old blodlines in norway.
and they are realey diferent.
i meen my amerikan is a elegant and longer legs, the norwishen is very shortlegs.
but as you say it is many between types.
if you look at puppys in a typical norwegian kennel and look at a typical american puppy you easy se de diferent of them.
in norway the chest is almost in the floor.
but we all read the standar different and that is no wrong about that, thats life Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://kennelstarmastino.googlepages.com
Flamenko



Posts : 114
Join date : 2009-04-11
Age : 28
Location : Vilnius, Lithuania

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Thu May 21, 2009 4:32 am

Yeah, I agree, that that picture isn`t right, but I just wanted to say, that there are two VERY different types. Maybe even instigate a discussion about it. Smile
Maybe I should leave only the photos, because they perfectly shows the diffrence between the two types of the breed. And those drawn pictures should be taken out Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.shih-tzu.tik.lt
tanja



Posts : 17
Join date : 2009-05-21
Age : 48

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Thu May 21, 2009 11:14 pm

i think that it mybe a sulucion to have two types, i meen split them.
like it is today its a lottery if the judgs like the american or the english type, and thats not right.
peopel travel far away to show and spend lot of mony on showing.
before they called it europen type, but in europe today its alot american so i think the englsih type is more proper name for the english and like some call it the scandinavien type.

i meen the american is a great shih tzu, but american. they have a great coat and they have elegant movement, its a realey show dog, but the old type of shih tzu is not like that.
like the cocker there are two types but seperat.
what do you folks think??
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://kennelstarmastino.googlepages.com
Flamenko



Posts : 114
Join date : 2009-04-11
Age : 28
Location : Vilnius, Lithuania

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Fri May 22, 2009 8:47 am

In my opinion, the best dog is dog "without a type" or "middle-type", I mean, dog, which goes first under a judge whatever is he/she from - USA, Sweden, UK or Russia...
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.shih-tzu.tik.lt
tzuluv



Posts : 3
Join date : 2009-05-17

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Fri May 22, 2009 9:01 am

There are two different types no doubt. To me, the ideal is portrayed in the illustrated standard.

Concerning the type referred to as the English - from the vast amount of pictures I have seen, they typically appear too short and then coupled with too long of back which often appears high in the rear. I much prefer some height as to not appear stationed on the ground, and also a level topline that is just slightly longer than the dog is tall. However, the English type is known for some strong and desirable traits which are heavy boning, nice big heads and correct tail sets/carriage. These are problem areas with the American Shih Tzu - especially tails - a great number are not good.

I don't see the difference in the two as a result of the standards (AKC and FCI) varying so much one from the other. As there are only a few minor variations in the two.

Having seperate judging doesn't seem plausible as there is but one standard.

I guess everyone much come to a mindset as to what is the ideal Shih Tzu for them based on the breed standard and strive to create that specimen by selective effort.

Steve/USA

Also I have seen (gone over) Xeralane's Magician a few times as he resides with a friend of mine not far away. He is a very nice boy. I think you said he was son of your Magnum.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tanja



Posts : 17
Join date : 2009-05-21
Age : 48

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Fri May 22, 2009 11:28 am

hi again
yes it is like i said, the american is a realey show dog, i meen the siluet and the topline etc.
but if you look at ta maria kennel in finland they have the low type and good topline to.
yes i know that some english can have problem, i have seen that about the topline.
its like the english mastiff, or the neopilitan mastiffs, they have also this problem to get a good topline.
i thhink its a good ide to breed in some american to english and then english on the puppys after them.
even english breeders do that.

but what i ment to split them is to get to breeds, like the american cocker and the english cocker.
they also are very different in type and siluett.
but this is not up to us, this is the breeders homecontry, so i think it will maby never happen.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://kennelstarmastino.googlepages.com
Lemuro
Admin


Posts : 204
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 26
Location : Lithuania

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Mon May 25, 2009 11:13 am

anyway I still keep my opinion , because the standard is the standard and the shih-tzu who si closier the standard will be the best Smile
some really english type and american type shih-tzu in my opinion are not like writing in the standard about the shih-tzu and it depends from a judge which type they like, it is like a lotery.

P.S. yes , Xerelane's Magnician is Magnum son Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.myshihtzu.info
tzuluv



Posts : 3
Join date : 2009-05-17

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Tue May 26, 2009 7:33 am

>>>the standard and the shih-tzu who si closier the standard will be the best <<<

We hope!

And I'm sure we have all seen the times that a "lottery" drawing would have been a better method for putting up, than the dogs the judges selected, but that's the way it goes at times, but not all the time.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tzu



Posts : 9
Join date : 2010-01-09
Location : Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:30 am

Common peoble! Our beloved breed is changing! from the old english/chinese to american light, leggy type, and that im worried about!

If you only look at the breed history and it´s oriental origin you show clearly whitch type is the correct old type. We all know that dogs in America, not only the shih tzu, are more extreme and showy then in europe. Take for examples the english springer spaniel, they are a working dogs, how can they work in the fields with that look and all that coat they have in America??

The American Shih Tzu I think is too short, to leggy, I mean this breed should be like the standard say STRONG, big round head, LOW to the ground, longer than it is high, level topline not like on a Schnauzer or up in the back! Very flat tails! And even if the have ok tails, the handlers push them down!

They should not be like dolls!! I mean just Look!! I think these drawed photos above are just like the real pictures itself!

Read about the shih tzu past, look at pictures then you perhaps know what I mean Smile

some champions:

English type

Typical English/Scandinavian Shih Tzu multi Ch! (a male)


One of the most winning shih tzu in scandinavia from very old blodlines

English type, from Irland:


----
American Type




American Champion Fantasia Splendor Of D Night (a male)
(Not the best pic but shows his body well)





Last edited by tzu on Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:09 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Flamenko



Posts : 114
Join date : 2009-04-11
Age : 28
Location : Vilnius, Lithuania

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:36 am


What did you mean posting this photo? Smile Is it your example of good or bad shih tzu?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.shih-tzu.tik.lt
tzu



Posts : 9
Join date : 2010-01-09
Location : Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:38 am

Well This photo should presenting the topline talk Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Flamenko



Posts : 114
Join date : 2009-04-11
Age : 28
Location : Vilnius, Lithuania

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:41 am

tzu wrote:
Well This photo should presenting the topline talk Smile

I like her topline, judges liked too Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.shih-tzu.tik.lt
tzu



Posts : 9
Join date : 2010-01-09
Location : Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:42 am

exactly cheers


Last edited by tzu on Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:49 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Flamenko



Posts : 114
Join date : 2009-04-11
Age : 28
Location : Vilnius, Lithuania

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:46 am

tzu wrote:
exactly cheers

This is my dog, my lovely veteran Gile. Her bloodlines are quite old...
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.shih-tzu.tik.lt
tzu



Posts : 9
Join date : 2010-01-09
Location : Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:54 am

Looks like a lovely veteran, Congratulations Smile

This should not be a conversation about your dog, Im sorry.

What Im trying to say about the toplines... that she looks like having a nice topline but on on some pictures it´s like the topline is pointing down at the rear.. http://i41.tinypic.com/2641aic.jpg - pointing down http://i43.tinypic.com/oaxf8j.jpg normal Smile pictures often bluff Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Flamenko



Posts : 114
Join date : 2009-04-11
Age : 28
Location : Vilnius, Lithuania

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:02 am

Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.shih-tzu.tik.lt
tanja



Posts : 17
Join date : 2009-05-21
Age : 48

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:49 pm

hi tzu
so nice to see someone again take this up.
this desember i was in a show and had my norwegian boy and it was a swedish and german judgs so i was thinking this can go my way.
have to tell he got cc 14 days before for a italien judg.
but even the swedish judge gave him only very good, and since i was supriced that a swedish judg liked the american shih tzu that had been painted, styled up with all types of makeup, he said that hi like the shih tzu more proud.
i meen in FCI it is not leagal to makeup our dogs, like american do, and here in spain they use everything in the coat.
i show mine in just naturel, and then you cant show agains makeupdolls.
i will never change, but still showing my dogs like that, but i get so angry that judges from our conterys put up this makeupdolls, they know it is not leagal.
and this is just the american type that is doing, make the white whiter, and the colors better, putting the top so high that they must use alot of spray.
in norway we have controlls on show and we can only use wather and maizena.

i still think a american shih tzu is a very lovely showdog, but the old shih tzu was not a elegant dog, it shall me low and have browed chest and head
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://kennelstarmastino.googlepages.com
Lemuro
Admin


Posts : 204
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 26
Location : Lithuania

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:39 am

it is very intresting to read that everyone don't like America's shih tzu, but maybe you choose bad kennel for example ?

I have a visitor from the most America's winning kennel Xeralane's.
He is Gary "Germ JCH Xeralane's Face the Glamour"


I really like this dog. Gary have big round head with black round eyes and very good pigmentation, wide chest , very very strong bones, very nice top line and so wonderful movement with very good temperament, you need to see him and touch to understand how good he is. Him brother Music now is currently #1 Shih Tzu in America.
Him breeders can whait to get Gary back to finish him, so he is that dog who can win on every judge.
It is the same withGary' s Daughter Happy " Cheina doll's Happy" , she is my own female. We was with her on so many diffirent countries judges and every judge liked her, for example in World dog show she was 3rd in junior class on Finland judge , as you know this judge give a lot of very good and good this time , so it is wonderful results that she liked my female. Not long time ago she won Best in Show on Belgium, Slovenian and Netherlands judges.
Only the one thing I don't like on my Happy is her tail,it is not a very bad tail , but not good enough to call correct tail, but hope to find the good male for her and we get some nice puppies

I really like Xeralane's kennel dogs , because I know they breed typical dogs and all thems dogs looks very similar . So maybe need to search better kennel and don't speak that all America's shih tzu is not typical ? Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.myshihtzu.info
tanja



Posts : 17
Join date : 2009-05-21
Age : 48

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:14 am

i know that even in america they have lower good types, but what we speak about is this high slim typed and little heads.
i know a import to sweden from lone star kennel and that was not slim type and i know many others too.
so thats rigth that you must look at diferent kennel.
the dog you have a pic of is lower type and big head, but was i think and i am not an expert, is that it is still little high on legs and short back, but the tast is diferent and that we easy see in the showring and that s good i think.
i know that america have good low dogs, even england import from america and they never have a high and slim modell Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://kennelstarmastino.googlepages.com
Lemuro
Admin


Posts : 204
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 26
Location : Lithuania

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:46 am

I dont think that Gary is too short in back or too long on legs, he is a perfect for me what I think is correct shih tzu body. Also I don't think taht shih tzu must be so long and short legs as is dachshunds, when the movement is really diffirent and when they dont have thems arrogant carriage or smooth-flowing movement. So only one notice that every people understand diffirent what is standard.

Talking about good kennels I also like Hashanah shih tzu in the UK, i love thems body and heads. This is the type what I think shih tzu must looks.
Look at the Gucci http://www.hashanah.com/portfolio.php?dogId=4

He is one of my favorits from this kennel, even with or without grooming he looks very nice. It is so nice to see that here is some breeders who breed typical shih tzu Smile
Also this kennel have some imports from Canada and America too Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.myshihtzu.info
tanja



Posts : 17
Join date : 2009-05-21
Age : 48

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:01 am

i will not say that your dog is bad, like i said evybody have diferent tast and thats good or els it would be very boring Very Happy
this link is to a finish kennel, ta maria, i think they are a good exsampe on the old type, and the mouth is very good on there, this mouth is missing on many american types.http://www.tamaria.net/news.htm
the link you showed me, i know about this kennel and they have many good shih tzus i think
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://kennelstarmastino.googlepages.com
Lemuro
Admin


Posts : 204
Join date : 2009-04-03
Age : 26
Location : Lithuania

PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:58 am

yes i like this kennel too Smile especially the dog Ta Maria Sugar Daddy who was Bes of breed at Nordic Winner show Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.myshihtzu.info
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Shih tzu types   Today at 3:08 pm

Back to top Go down
 
Shih tzu types
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» What types of scorpions live in Texas?
» Ryanair's previous aircraft types.....
» Types of Compost...
» Special Shih Tzu Clipart Creators
» what 5 types of compost

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Worldwide Shih-Tzu forum :: The Shih-Tzu :: The Shih-Tzu standard-
Jump to: